The article reminded me of WTBS publications and their infantile, circular and trivial rationale. Here's a marvelous example of the sheer brilliance conatined in this "opus magnae excrementum":
"So true is this, that I propose to argue that unless God is back of everything, you cannot find meaning in anything. I cannot even argue for belief in Him, without already having taken Him for granted. And similarly I contend that you cannot argue against belief in Him unless you also first take Him for granted. Arguing about God's existence, I hold, is like arguing about air. You may affirm that air exists, and I that it does not. But as we debate the point, we are both breathing air all the time. Or to use another illustration, God is like the emplacement on which must stand the very guns that are supposed to shoot Him out of existence. However if, after hearing my story briefly, you still think it is all a matter of heredity and environment, I shall not disagree too violently. My whole point will be that there is perfect harmony between my belief as a child and my belief as a man, simply because God is Himself the environment by which my early life was directed and my later life made intelligible to myself."
This mental-midget wants us to believe we cannot debate the existence of a god without taking that existence for granted? What kind of slop is he trying to feed us? Then, as a special one-time introductory bonus, he shows us how one can affirm that air exists, and another can deny it, however both are breathing air, and this is proof of a god?
So, he says a god exists and I say he doesn't but because HE believes in a god, that means that during the entire time of our debate, a god may be watching or may be present? Obviously, all science, medicine, religion and everything in between realize that air exists and we are even able to contain it, distribute it, modify its properties and alter its composition. We are not able to do anything at all with any god.
This man should get help.
Utopian Reformist
JoinedPosts by Utopian Reformist
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31
Chew on this one, my athe...oops, agnostic friends!
by Shining One inthis is a long read and make sure you are refreshed and alert.
if you understand the argument here it may change your view of god's existence entirely!
go to the article, "why i believe in god".
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Utopian Reformist
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142
What's the most ridiculous thing you were ever counselled on?
by micheal inone of the cornerstones of jw's is counsel.
they just love to give counsel and many times they will literally make things up just for the sake of counsel.
i was once counselled for joking around too much.
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Utopian Reformist
For having styling gel (a.k.a greasy/wet look) in my hair when it I wore a spiked/flat top.
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Why naturalism is irrational
by Shining One inirrational naturalism (#201) .
by henry morris, ph.d. .
abstract .
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Utopian Reformist
I have not american chinese food in awhile, so, I thought that Tetrapod's stir fry sounded very tasty!
Shining One uses accusatory language and insults to portray the real scientific community as "dogmatic" The quoted material cited in his post merely proves that science is not dogmatic, not claiming to have discovered the final truth of any matter regarding the origins of life. Rather, in a very RATIONAL, BALANCED and PRACTCAL way, science continues searching, experimenting and investigating all evidence and establish connections to arrive at logical conclusions.
The conclusions are helpful to us in theorizing, and possibly determing the methods and events that occurred during the beginning of life. Nowhere do scientists claim the absolute, definite, and exact final answer to every question about origins. Rather, science, unlike religion, is willing to continue performing the arduous task of never-ending research and simple hard work that it takes to discover, catalog and link new evidence and information so that plausible ideas can be presented, tested and compared with existing knowledge.
Religion is a closed matter. There is very little light in a dark closet, and little air. I would rather wait another thousand years for additional discoveries and new information than succumb to religious control, fear and superstition and conduct a life of paranoia. If your religious god exists, simply show yourself and prove us all worng. Don't bother wasting my time with a ridiculous quote from any book written by humans too lazy to study and discover what nature and the universe has to offer us. If I were a god, you would know it. -
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My simple answer for AlmostAthiest.
by defd inhey, this was your question for me yesterday .
"if the faithful and discreet slave can -- by their own admission -- make mistakes, and since they are the ones that identified themselves as the fds, isn't it possible that they were mistaken about their identity?".
i thought about it and this is my reply.
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Utopian Reformist
I have come to believe that it is important (for me) to be spiritual, although I do not have or profess any faith. In my opinion, faith and spirituality are completely different and separate items (for me).
MJB -
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WOMAN IN SAN FRANCISCO THROWS HER THREE SONS INTO SF BAY!
by Utopian Reformist inwhen i saw this article, i could not believe the feeling of dejavu that overcame be because of what happened to my daughter almost on year ago next week.
here is the article: .
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051021/ap_on_re_us/children_in_bay .
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Utopian Reformist
When I saw this article, I could not believe the feeling of dejavu that overcame be because of what happened to my daughter almost on year ago next week.
Here is the article:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051021/ap_on_re_us/children_in_bay
The proceedings, the evaluations, the media coverage and the family involved are all like a mirror image of what we are all still going through today. How sad for the innocent children! -
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If You Only Had 48 Hours Left To Live----What Would You Do In The Remaining
by minimus intime??
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Utopian Reformist
I think I would call as many people I love and say my goodbyes and everything I should have said, or never said, and then I have to admit, as evil as it is, I would immediately take revenge on my enemies. If that were accomplished in less than 48 hours, I would use the remaining time to fly overseas and see family.
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How many of you shunned others when you were a JW?
by Lady Lee ini know i did.. we had a young fellow who used to live at my grandmother's place.
in may ways he was like family.
after he moved out of my grandmother's place i saw him frequently.
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Utopian Reformist
I am glad I did not practice the shunning because I always thought it was cruel. I was mildly scolded dozens of times by others for being seen talking, sometimes laughing, or associating with disfellowshipped and disassociated people. It never bothered me and I am glad.
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Why have you rejected all forms of faith?
by AlmostAtheist init seems that when a person leaves jw's, there's just no telling where he'll end up spiritually.
christian, jew, pagan, jamesthomasism -- i dare say every faith is represented among us.. but there are those that reject faith altogether.
they are often accused of letting the watchtower steal god from them, or throwing the baby out with the bath.. are you one those that rejected faith altogether after your exit?
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Utopian Reformist
I have come to believe that it is important (for me) to be spiritual, although I do not have or profess any faith. In my opinion, faith and spirituality are completely different and separate items (for me).
I find that typically speaking, most humans express faith as a belief in something or someone. A natural by-product of a basic faith is reverence, or worship. The by-product is where all of the world's religious problems begin and end.
I have discovered (for me) that I feel spiritual when I isolate myself from secular and mundane life, AND reflect, meditate, concentrate, think (and any other appropriate synonym that applies) about my life. I review my life, the world I live in, my circumstances, how I feel about reality, who I love, what I love, where I want to go, be, visit, live, etc. I contemplate every facet of being and silently think about everything and attempt to determine new ideas, new direction and sometimes arrive at decisions.
Some might call that simple personal quiet time and/or simple reflection. I think it is spiritual because you are alone, and privately reaching inward and facing yourself and cannot hide and realize who, what and how you are in the grand scheme of things.
It takes a relaxed mind and a willing spirit to reach inside and examine yourself. I personally feel that is more important and much more beneficial than trying to decide whether or not something or someone created the universe and whether or not something or someone exists in another dimension and should be contacted and respected through procedures and methods assembled by other humans.
None of us will ever control who or how the universe came into existence. It cannot be reversed or controlled, thus is it relevant? However, who you are and how you feel about yourself, those you love, your environment, and your future are very real and you have the power, capacity and intelligence to make changes and improvements in the way you relate to those things.
Rather than trying to fix faith or religion, I would rather fix life. That is why I do not profess a faith in anything or anyone. It simply does not improve my life, only causes distractions.
Solamente pecuniae minutiae meum!
MJB -
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I am so grateful for this board
by lonelysheep inthanks, simon!
this is the first msg board i came across during my doubting period.. there are a lot of valuable people here.
even though i've yet to share conversation with them face-to-face (except a few), they are important to me.. .
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Utopian Reformist
I thank everyone at this forum for their never-ending, relentless freindship, loyalty, support and constant vigil and attention given to exposing the truth about harmful religious organizations. This forum is not only a sanctuary but also an enormous library of information. It is a resource in every way and every bit as helpful as any professional therapy one could engage. It is like digital therapy among friends and family.
I am constantly humbled and forever grateful to everyone (especially Simon) who shared in bringing this forum to life! -
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Were You Ever Drunk or High At A Meeting Or In Service?
by minimus in.
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an elder in our hall used to drink his wine before evening meetings regularly, and on more than a few occasions was "buzzed" and laughing up on the platform while giving a talk.
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Utopian Reformist
At the very last memorial service I attended in 1999, I was definitely very buzzed on some homemade wine! In vino veritas!